Minutes

Minutes of the Counter-Terrorism and Protective Services Sub-committee of the Metropolitan Police Authority held on 29 January 2009 at 10 Dean Farrar Street, London SW1H 0NY.

Present

Members

• Toby Harris (Chair)
• James Cleverly (item 4-6)
• Neil Johnson

MPA officers

• Sally Benton (Policy Advisor)
• Jane Harwood (Assistant Chief Executive) (item 1-9)
• Ken Hunt (Treasurer)
• Jane Owen (Head of Planning and Performance)
• Ruth Hastings Iqball (Committee Services)

MPS officers

• Craig Denholm (Cdr, SO)
• Duncan King (SO Lead Accountant)
• Simon Pountain (Cdr, SCD)
• Robert Quick (AC Specialist Operations)
• Andrew Slater (Staff Officer ACSO
• Brian Sweeting (SO Business Manager)

12. Apologies for absence

(Agenda item 1)

Apologies were received from Reshard Auladin (Vice Chair).

13. Declarations of interests

(Agenda item 2)

No declarations were made.

14. Minutes: Counter-Terrorism and Protective Services Sub-committee (Part 1) – 27 November 2008

(Agenda item 3)

The Committee considered the minutes of the meeting (Part 1) held on 27 November 2008.

The Chair asked about the development of arrangements for the provision of business support services to ACPO TAM on a cost recovery basis (item 6). The Lead Accountant, SO, stated that a draft was being prepared by consultants and would be circulated within the MPS in the coming week. The Chair noted that a report would have to be submitted to the Finance and Resources Committee. The minutes stated that that an update on ACPO TAM’s IS/IT was to have been received (item 10). The Sub Committee was informed that the MPA and MPS were considering how such a report would be presented to the Sub Committee. A briefing session on Prevent would be held for members on 7 February (item 11).

Resolved – That the minutes of the Counter-Terrorism and Protective Services Sub-Committee (Part 1) held on 27 November 2008 be agreed and signed as a correct record.

15. Delivery of PREVENT

(Agenda item 4)

A report was received providing the Sub Committee with a detailed account of what the MPS is doing to deliver Prevent, a Government strategy to Prevent people becoming terrorists or supporting violent extremists.

The Chair noted the difficulties in realising mature partnerships and having a portfolio of interventions on offer in the Channel programme. He was informed that Specialist Operations (SO) did not favour the continuation of further borough pilots, but now sought the creation of a ‘footprint’ that could be deployed across more than one borough, thus enhancing capability. The Chair stated that he could see the sense of this, but wondered about how partnerships and the trust could be managed across borough boundaries. He was informed that Manchester was developing a similar model.

Members felt the Prevent strand should be less dominated by the police. They were informed that the MPS felt it had an important role to play in developing partnerships and bringing people together.

The Chair requested that in part 2 of a future meeting, the Sub Committee consider whether engagement was working well, how members could contribute and the organisational risks in the delivery of Prevent.

Resolved – That

1. the activities undertaken by the MPS to deliver Prevent be brought to the attention of the Counter Terrorism and Protective Services Sub Committee; and
2. in part 2 of a future meeting, the Sub Committee consider whether engagement was working well, how members could contribute and the organisational risks in the delivery of Prevent.

16. Section 44 - Terrorism Act 2000 (oral report)

(Agenda item 5)

Members were informed Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 allowed the police to stop and search anyone in a specific area without the requirement for reasonable grounds. Every 28 day a DAC applied to a Court /Magistrate (?) for the legal power to apply the searches pan London, the MPS regarding the power as an essential tool. Members were informed that use of the power had been reviewed by Lord Carlile, the independent monitor of the implementation of anti-terrorism legislation. He had found it a legitimate power, but had questioned it use. The recommendations made by the MPA and others in relation to stop and search powers were being considered by ACPO. A team within the MPS had been set up to ensure the power was used appropriately and its impact on the community appreciated and would be producing a report on 2 February.

The Chair noted that when the MPA consulted on the subject of stop and search it had found it alienated young people and had not led to many arrests. Members were uncomfortable with how the power was utilised, feeling that the fact of having to renew the power every 28 days showed that its use was intended to be rare. Members were informed that officers were being encouraged to use of sec 43 (where an officer reasonably suspect that the person is a terrorist).

Resolved – That the oral report be received.

17. Exclusion of press and public

(Agenda item 6)

A resolution was put to exclude the press and public from the meeting during remaining items on the agenda as they were likely to disclose exempt information as described in Schedule 12(a) of the Local Government Act 1972, paragraph 3.

Resolved - That the press and public be excluded from the meeting during discussion of the remaining items on the agenda.

Summary of decisions made on exempt items

18. Financial management information - December 08

(Agenda item 7)

The Sub Committee considered the financial management information for SO contained in appendix 1 of the report. The Chair requested an update on Designated Security Post funding. Members were told that the MPS had made the best possible case to the Home Office for an increase in the grant, however it had been told funding would remain the same. The MPS was now arguing for an increase to cover the cost of inflation. The Chair noted that the Home Office repeatedly said it was going to review the situation to find a sustainable solution but failed to do so, but now the issues and risk were now recorded.

19. Performance data

(Agenda item 8)

Members considered a report containing SO performance data and discussed various performance indicators.

20. Operations update (oral report)

(Agenda item 9)

Members were informed there had been 172 arrests for terrorism related offences in 2008, resulting in 68 charges. Of the 74 people tried in 2008, 61 had been convicted. The Chair felt these figures should be regularly updated and publicised so that the public might understand that such arrests did result in convictions.

21. Minutes: Counter-Terrorism and Protective Services Sub-committee (Part 2) – 27 November 2008

(Agenda item 10)

The Committee considered the minutes of the meeting (Part 1) held on 27 November 2008 were agreed.

The meeting ended at 5.45 pm

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