Minutes - draft

Please note these minutes are currently draft and are subject to committee approval.

Minutes of the meeting of the Metropolitan Police Authority held on 29 September 2005 at 10 Dean Farrar Street, London, SW1H 0NY.

Present

Members

• Len Duvall (Chair)
• Reshard Auladin (Deputy Chair)
• Cindy Butts (Deputy Chair)
• Tony Arbour
• Richard Barnes
• Toby Harris
• Kirsten Hearn
• Peter Herbert
• Elizabeth Howlett
• Jenny Jones
• Karim Murji
• Bob Neill
• Aneeta Prem
• Murad Qureshi
• John Roberts
• Richard Sumray
• Graham Tope
• Abdal Ullah
• Rachel Whittaker

MPA officers

• Catherine Crawford (Chief Executive)
• Ken Hunt (Treasurer)
• David Riddle (Deputy Chief Executive)
• Simon Vile (Head of Secretariat)

MPS officers

• Sir Ian Blair (Commissioner)
• Paul Stephenson (Deputy Commissioner)
• Tim Godwin (Assistant Commissioner)
• Alan Brown (Assistant Commissioner)

32. Apologies for absence

(Agenda item 1)

Apologies for absence were received from Jennette Arnold, Dee Doocey and Damian Hockney.

33. Statement by the Chair

The Chair made a statement in connection with Lord Stevens’ public acknowledgement that he had incorrectly stated that the MPA had not been informed about Operation Kratos. The Chair said that MPA members had received a general briefing on these tactics in March 2002 in a closed session following a public Authority meeting. It had also been discussed at all stages with the then lead member on terrorism, Sir John Quinton. The MPA had always been kept informed of all developing tactics. The former Chair, Toby Harris, had been briefed as had Len Duvall when he was appointed Chair in 2004. There would be a further private briefing session for members that afternoon and the MPA would be arranging for an open discussion of the use of the tactic later that autumn.

34. Declarations of interest

(Agenda item 2)

None declared.

35. Minutes

(Agenda item 3)

Resolved – That the minutes of the meeting of the Authority held on 28 July 2005 be confirmed and signed as a correct record.

36. Public questions

(Agenda item 4)

The Authority received three questions from members of the public as follows:

From Pauline Bower: “Following the report on Newsnight on Monday, 1 August 2005, are any members of the Metropolitan Police Service at all involved or implicated in the “rendition” process and, if they are, did the MPA authorise this activity?”

The Chief Executive responded as follows: “Rendition is a term coined by the United States Central Intelligence Agency to refer to the practice of clandestinely shuttling captured individuals thought to be enemies of the United States from one country to another for the purposes of detention or interrogation.

The Commissioner tells me that no members of the Metropolitan Police Service have played any part in this process. The MPS deals with all requests for extradition through legal process with the Crown Prosecution Service in accordance with British and International laws. Requests received from other countries for information are similarly dealt with in accordance with International laws and treaties.”

In response Pauline Bower suggested that the Authority should commission a report on liaison arrangements between the MPS and the Immigration Service. The Chief Executive commented that the Authority had already received reports on this matter and a further report was to be considered in due course. She would arrange for those reports to be sent to Pauline Bower.

From Shabina Choudhry: “Can you clarify the process of the shoot to kill policy/procedure, in particular from threat to shoot?”

The Chief Executive responded as follows: “This question is no doubt prompted by the shooting of Mr de Menezes. I must therefore make it clear that my response and any subsequent discussion must relate solely to policy and not to the events surrounding that tragic death.

I would recommend anyone looking to understand the context for this policy to read the evidence given by the Home Secretary and the Commissioner to the Home Affairs Select Committee on 13 September.

What is known as ‘Operation Kratos’ is a series of tactics developed to deal with the threat posed by a suicide bomber. It includes a firearms component, and I will repeat what has been said before – this is a ‘shoot to stop’ policy not a ‘shoot to kill’ policy.

Kratos was developed post 9/11 by the Association of Chief Police Officers and the MPS as a national response against the potential terrorist threat of suicide bombers. This was informed by research and learning from best practice elsewhere in the world. It was introduced nationally in January 2003.

I cannot talk through the procedure in detail as to do so could prejudice future operations. However, the MPS have informed me that the following are key aspects of the firearms response:

• The response is based on intelligence received, reinforced by senior level decision-making. If the firearms option within Kratos is deemed necessary the Designated Senior Officer (DSO) will authorise officers to deploy their weapons. The DSO will always be a senior officer of the rank of Commander or above
• The individual officer must decide if the person represents an immediate threat to himself or herself and to members of the public, and if absolutely necessary use lethal force
• Tactics have been developed to include a specialised response to the sudden appearance of a suspect where there is intelligence that they are about to commit a deadly attack
• The very nature of a suicide attack means that positive action is required by officers to prevent any type of detonation, a detonation that could lead to the murder of many people
• Lethal force may be the only option. Experience from around the world says that suicide bombers will detonate immediately if they are aware of a police presence, and also that the explosives used are extremely volatile. This volatility means that use of less lethal options, such as a Taser, would detonate the explosives.
• The MPS stress that there is no profile of a suicide bomber circulated to their staff and that research and experience shows that there is no specific profile.

The Commissioner is on record as describing this as ‘the least worst option’ and this sums up the dilemma that most of us will be grateful not to have to resolve, that is how to stop someone who is intent on killing others by using themselves as a human bomb.”

Shabina Choudhry commented further that it was still not clear who had been consulted on the development of these tactics. Given that a Taser had been used in an incident in the West Midlands, the tactic was not apparently being applied nationally. The Chief Executive responded that the MPA had been consulted but it was not for the Authority to comment either on the wider consultation or on the approach adopted by other police forces. The Commissioner added that, as he had commented to the Home Affairs Select Committee, the real scandal would be if there had been no policy in place to counter suicide bombers. However, the death of Mr de Menezes did raise the issue of the need for some form of public debate about how to engage with suicide bombers with a primarily unarmed police force.

From Kelly ben-Maimon: "Will additional police resources be available throughout the night, to deal with the later opening hours of pubs and clubs and any increase in drunkenness or anti social behaviour that may occur, when the governments new licensing regulations come in to effect".

The Chief Executive responded as follows: “There is police concern nationally about the implications of extended licensing hours, given the strong link between alcohol and serious anti-social behaviour. The MPS response broadly consists of prevention work and enforcement activity. With regard to prevention, borough commanders are working closely with their local authorities to try to design out and prevent violence and disorder. However, enforcement activity will also be necessary and since the MPS has been given no extra resources in this respect, it will be a case of managing within existing resource constraints.

Licensed premises are currently applying for their new licences, and boroughs will not know until late November what they will have to police in future. I understand anecdotal evidence suggests that many licensed premises have sought to extend their weekday hours by 1 to 2 hours and their weekend opening by 2 to 3 hours.”

In response Kelly ben-Maimon pointed to the health dangers brought about by 24 hour drinking. Alcohol triggered violent conduct – the Lambeth Council Licensing Committee was already receiving reports from residents of anti-social behaviour as a result of drinking. The Chair commented on the need to encourage responsible behaviour – whilst the public expected the situation to be policed in the best possible way, not just a policing response was required. This was an issue that he raised with Crime & Disorder Reduction Partnerships during his visits to boroughs.

37. Minutes of committees

(Agenda item 5)

The Authority noted the minutes of the following committee meetings:

• Equal Opportunities & Diversity Board, 7 July
• Planning, Performance & Review Committee, 14 July
• Finance Committee, 21 July
• Community Engagement Committee, 1 September
• Professional Standards & Complaints Committee, 8 September (note of an inquorate meeting)

38. Chair’s, Members’ and Chief Executive’s updates

(Agenda item 6)

No updates received.

39. Commissioner’s update

(Agenda item 7)

The Commissioner reported on the investigation into the bomb attacks in London. This continued at an unprecedented pace and was the largest investigation in English criminal history. A number of arrests had been made including that of Hussein Osman on his extradition from Italy. These investigations continued to have a significant impact on MPS resources.

The meeting discussed the Operation Kratos policy. The Commissioner commented that the policy had been developed as an operational matter and there was now a need for public debate to demonstrate democratic accountability without revealing tactics to potential terrorists. The Chair reported his intention to open that debate at a full Authority meeting, possibly in November. Members commented that a debate on this issue should also include the use of guns generally.

In reply to a question, the Commissioner reported that the Home Office had received a request under the Freedom of Information Act for the correspondence between himself and Sir John Gieve, Permanent Secretary at the Home Office immediately following the shooting of Mr de Menezes. The Commissioner supported the release of these letters and in addition the Home Office would be releasing a letter from the Chair of the Authority to the Home Office on the same matter. The Commissioner repeated his comments to the Home Affairs Select Committee – that the MPS had faced a unique set of circumstances that day with four attempted suicide bombers on the loose. A man had been shot dead and were he to be one of the bombers then it was vital that Assistant Commissioner Hayman’s team had priority over the investigation. He had therefore telephoned the Chair of the Independent Police Complaints Commission to explain his concerns and to say that he would be writing to the Home Office in these unique circumstances. He considered that such a course of action did not constitute an attempt to cover up. In reply to a member’s question he said that the letter was sent at about 12.30 p.m. on 22 July.

Also in reply to a question about correction of misinformation after an incident such as this, the Commissioner commented that there was a memorandum of understanding with the IPCC that once an inquiry had been handed over to that organisation the MPS would say nothing, and that included correcting any misinformation in the public arena. He considered that this approach might need to be revisited.

The Commissioner also reported on public order events. The Notting Hill Carnival had taken place successfully but he had asked Assistant Commissioner House to examine whether in future the cost of the policing operation (£4.8 million this year) could be reduced and to discuss with the Carnival and the GLA rerouting the event. He also reported on the cost of the Defence Systems and Equipment International Exhibition (DSEi) - £4 million, made up of £1 million overtime and the remainder opportunity cost. He had written to the Secretary of State that these costs should in future be recovered from the organisers.

The performance report for the period April to August was tabled. The Commissioner in particular highlighted the performance in relation to Safer Neighbourhood areas, which were seeing double the crime reduction of other areas together with increased public satisfaction and a sense of safety in those areas. The Commissioner acknowledged that the detection rate was not as good as it should be, although offences brought to justice had increased by 26% since 2003.

In reply to member’s comments, A.C. Godwin confirmed that whilst over the past three years the street crime trend was downwards, the involvement of young people had been increasing both as victims and perpetrators. He would bring a report to the appropriate committee on how the MPS can involve itself further in schools to tackle this trend. A.C. Godwin was also asked to report to the Authority on the situation in relation to retail crime and the MPS response, with particular reference to the Shop Watch initiative.

Kirsten Hearn reported that she had been contacted by a number of MPS disabled staff following a speech given by the Commission to the Superintendents’ Conference which included reference to disability. Those staff felt that the organisation often frustrated their efforts by not making adjustments to enable them to perform in their jobs and that the organisation’s macho culture worked against their interests. They felt that the Commissioner’s comments had reinforced those attitudes about not valuing disabled staff. The Commissioner responded that his speech had been about the underlying issues for the police service – whilst he agreed with Kirsten Hearn’s broad view it was the case that there were two cultures in the MPS based on whether one held a warrant card or not. There were issues relating to a disabled officer working alongside police staff, but often being paid twice as much for the same work. Similarly, because of the reduction in ill-health retirements, some officers were working one hour a day on full pay.

The meeting also discussed the Commissioner’s comments in that speech about exploring the use of former soldiers for firearms duties. The Commissioner emphasised that this had been a wide-ranging speech looking forward to the issues for the next 10 – 15 years. The position he had been putting forward was whether for some duties, such as the static guarding of important buildings, officers with the full range of policing skills were needed and whether in that case there were alternatives, which would release highly trained firearms officers for other duties. Some members remained concerned both at the sensitivities of having that debate in the current circumstances and that the demands of the policing role required more skills than just firearms expertise.

40. Joint report on Service Review, Corporate Strategy and Together

(Agenda item 8a and 8b)

The Authority considered a report by the Commissioner on the 2006/09 Corporate Strategy, proposals from the Service Review and information on how these would be underpinned by the values in the Together approach. The Authority also considered a report by the Chief Executive on MPA oversight arrangements for the next stage of the Service Review process. An addendum to the Chief Executive’s report and a letter from the Metropolitan Police Federation were tabled.

A.C. Godwin referred to the costings for the rollout of Safer Neighbourhoods and said that these would be reported to the Finance Committee and the Greater London Authority for approval at a lower cost than previously.

In the discussion members welcomed the broad thrust of the proposals and recognised that this was a significant modernisation programme. The Safer Neighbourhoods rollout was a key part. Some concern was expressed that the implementation of the Service Review would lead to greater centralisation. There were also concerns that the Service Review proposals in relation to child protection might lead to a dissipation of the gains achieved so far. It was also felt that there should be recognition of the strategic necessity of working with other agencies in areas such as youth provision.

The Chair stated that the Authority supported the direction of travel. At this stage members would want to reserve their position on the detailed implications for the budget.

Resolved

1. That the content and format of the Corporate Strategy be agreed;
2. That the Authority notes the role played by the MPA in the service review and the views communicated to the MPS Management Board;
3. That the broad direction of travel put forward by Service Review be agreed, subject to the ongoing formal consultation process;
4. That the Authority support the service review proposals recommended for implementation by the MPS Management Board subject to detailed plans as set out in paragraph 7;
5. That a co-ordinated planning approach be adopted that integrates the strategic priorities and outcomes in the Corporate Strategy with the proposals from the joint MPS/MPA Service Review, underpinned by the values contained in Together; and
6. That the proposed governance arrangements proposed in the Chief Executive’s report for the implementation planning phase of the service review be endorsed.

41. GLA group pandemic response

(Agenda item 9)

The Authority considered a report by the Chief Executive requesting agreement to the MPA meeting its proportion of the costs of anti-viral drugs purchased on behalf of the Greater London Authority and the Functional Bodies.

The Chief Executive reported that a further report would be submitted on the detail of the joint response plan once that plan had been finalised.

It was agreed that the Authority should receive a report on the work of London Resilience and its implications for the MPS and MPA.

Resolved - That approval be given to meet the MPA’s per capita proportion of the purchase cost of anti-viral drugs, in the sum of £456,000, from earmarked reserves, on the basis that the decisions on when to activate the response in relation to MPS officers and staff should rest with the MPA/MPS.

(Majority decision)

42. MPS Race Equality Scheme 2005 – 2008

(Agenda item 10a and 10b)

The Authority considered a report by the Commissioner seeking approval to the MPS Race Equality Scheme. It also considered a report by the Chief Executive on a review of this Race Equality Scheme.

Resolved

1. That the MPS Race Equality Scheme 2005 – 2008 be approved; and
2. That the MPS now progresses discussions concerning a single equality scheme to take all diversity issues forward.

43. MPA Committee Annual Report 2004/05

(Agenda item 11)

The Authority received the annual reports of its committees. It was noted that the Human Resources Committee’s report had not yet been agreed by the Committee as its meeting on 7 July had been cancelled. The Chair commented that where the comments of individual members had been included in annual reports these did not necessarily represent the view of the Authority.

Resolved – That the annual reports be noted.

44. Action taken under delegated authority

(Agenda item 12)

The Authority noted a report by the Chief Executive on urgent action taken under delegated authority.

The meeting ended at 12.45 p.m.

Send an e-mail linking to this page

Feedback