Minutes

23 January 2001

Minutes of the meeting of the Consultation, Diversity and Outreach Committee held at Dame Colet House, Ben Jonson Road, London E1 3NH.

Present

Members

• R David Muir (Chair)
• Cindy Butts (Deputy Chair)
• Angela Slaven (Deputy Chair)
• Jennette Arnold
• Jenny Jones
• Nicholas Long
• Cecile Lothian
• Abdal Ullah

MPA staff

• Catherine Crawford (Clerk) and Julia Smith

MPS staff

• Stephen Roberts
• Rosie Fitzpatrick (Borough Commander, Tower Hamlets)
• Ann Wheeler (Project Manager)

In addition, approximately 70 members of the press/public and other Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA)/Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) staff were present.

Part 1

59. Apologies

(Agenda item 1)

An apology was received from Assistant Commissioner Todd (MPS).

60. Minutes: 19 December 2000

(Agenda item 2)

Resolved:
the minutes of the meeting held on 19 December 2000 be agreed and signed as a correct record.

Arising:
Minute 51 - Equal Opportunities Statement for the MPA. Noted that the Human Resources Committee had made some minor changes to the policy.
Minute 55 - Crime and Disorder Partnerships – the matter would be considered by the Chair's Co-ordination and Urgency Committee in February.

61. Questions from the public

(Agenda item 3)

The comments, questions and replies are contained in Appendix 1 of the minutes.

Resolved:
that questions be received from the public for thirty minutes.

62. Chair's update

(Agenda item 4)

Members received a report which presented a brief overview of current key MPA actions and initiatives that fell within the remit of the committee. In introducing the report the Chair congratulated Nicholas Long on being awarded the MBE in the New Years Honours list for his police consultative work in Lambeth. Committee members also provided an update on the work they had been undertaking.

Resolved:
that the Chair's update be noted.

Arising:
Peter Herbert (Deputy Chair, MPA) stated that in addition to the issues referred to in the Chair's update, the Committee would at some appropriate point wish to consider the circumstances surrounding the suspension of Superintendent Ali Dizaei. He also felt that in its future consideration of stop and search the Committee should address the question of monitoring disproportionality.

63. TELCO/Norlington School inquiry

(Agenda item 5)

The East London Communities Organisation (TELCO) supported Norlington School in setting up an inquiry into street crime in Waltham Forest. A report was submitted which included the recommendations in the TELCO report which were specifically addressed to the MPA and the police in Waltham Forest and the response by the police to those recommendations.

Commander Roberts said he wished to draw attention to the fund which had been made available from the Home Office to support bids for initiatives to divert young people from street crime.

Resolved:
that the progress being made locally by Waltham Forest borough police on the recommendations in the report be noted.

64. HMIC report: calling time on crime

(Agenda item 6)

Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary published its thematic report on the effectiveness of crime and disorder partnerships 'Calling Time on Crime' in July 2000. The findings confirmed that substantial progress had been made in developing and improving local crime reduction efforts, but that there is still a long way to go in ensuring local strategies effectively drive and focus crime reduction activity.

Resolved:

1. the report on Calling Time on Crime be noted;
2. a further report be submitted to the Committee.

65. Working guidelines for link members

(Agenda item 7)

The MPA has a scheme whereby each member is linked to one or sometimes two boroughs. The role is an evolving one and has been discussed by members previously. Draft guidelines were submitted on how the scheme might operate.

It was noted that Darren Johnson was a link member for Lewisham and not Southwark as shown in Appendix 1.

In reply to a discussion on the draft guidelines set out in Appendix 2 the Clerk said that the points which had been raised would be taken into consideration when the report was redrafted for further considered by members.

Resolved:
that further development on the guidance to link members be delegated to the Chairs Coordination and Urgency Committee.

66. Best value review on consultation strategy progress report

(Agenda item 8)

A report was submitted which provided an update on the implementation of the best value review on consultation and sets out an action plan for the next steps. The project manager stated that in the course of the next three months meetings would be held with each the Chief Executive, Borough Commander and PCCG Chair for each borough. In this connection, she said she wished to reiterate that there appeared to have been a misunderstanding over the position of Councillors. Under the proposed arrangements they could as individuals participate with full voting rights. Any restrictions applied to their attendance in their capacity as elected members. She concluded by stating that there was no intention to change any PCCG before the summer.

Further to paragraph 2 it was noted that the members workshop to discuss strategy and implementation had been arranged for 21 February. A meeting will be arranged for Administrators.

Resolved:
that the work in progress on preparing for the implementation of he new consultation framework in anticipation of the strategy receiving formal approval.

67. Response to draft home office guidance on custody/lay visiting

(Agenda item 9)

A report was submitted on the draft independent custody visiting questionnaire analysis report. A proposed consultation programme was submitted.

Members identified the following points as needing further consideration:

• Training to include Mental Health considerations
• CCTV in Police vans
• Human Rights Act considerations
• Appropriate Adults

Resolved:

1. the consultation process outlined in Appendix 1 be approved;
2. the draft recommendations contained in Appendix 2 be noted;
3. the report be made available to the Home Office;
4. a further report be presented to the Committee.

68. Management of consultation across GLA functional bodies

(Agenda item 10)

A report was considered which informed members of the processes that are in place for the management of consultation across the GLA functional bodies. The MPA and MPS are involved in a number of these processes.

The Chair said that he would be meeting Richard Stone, the new Chair of the Pan-London Advisory Group on Faiths. Commander Roberts stated that the MPS would also wish to establish links with the Advisory Group.

Jennette Arnold reported that she had already attended meetings of the faith group. She would continue to do so and would feed report back to the Committee.

Resolved:

1. the draft terms of reference for the GLA/Functional Bodies Consultation Network be noted;
2. the Committee engage with the Civic Forum, Black Londoners Forum and the Pan-London Advisory Group on Faiths;
3. a further report be submitted to the Committee following a meeting between the Chair and the chair of the faith group.

The meeting ended at 7.45pm.

Appendix 1: Questions from the public

(Agenda item 3)

The Chair, in accordance with Standing Order 33, invited questions from members of the public. It was noted that an allocation of thirty minutes would be made for this item. The following is a summary of the questions and comments put to the Committee:

(a)
(i) community policing is working but is not always operative at key times such as evenings and weekends;
(ii) One way for the PCCGs to operate is by working closely with the sector working groups. This will require effective liaison between all interested parties;
(iii) Can the CDO Committee help to coordinate across London any initiatives which fall within its remit.

(b)
(i) Can I remind you of your undertaking to consult staff affected by the proposals for consultative groups and staff who work for lay visiting panels. The papers which were sent out included a proposal to sack all the lay visitor staff and to replace them with 12 area co-ordinators. This proposal is not included in the paper on tonight's agenda: does this mean that there have been second thoughts?
(ii) You are suggesting some very radical proposals for lay visiting for example that detainees are to be recorded by sexual orientation;
(iii)There seems to be a danger that the Authority is getting bogged down in detail – for example the report on lay visiting envisages that all custody visitor reports be sent to the MPA. You should be concentrating on the bigger picture.

(c) Will the MPA respond in a positive way to suggestions made by PCCG's on the implementation of the new consultation arrangements;

(d) Will you agree that the consultation over the proposals was handled in a clumsy way.

The Chair stated that implementation period for the review was estimated at 18 months to three years and assured the questioner that the MPA would work with the PCCGs to make the new arrangements work.

(e) As Director of a youth project and a member of a Lay Visiting Panel I am conscious of a change in the public perception of the police since the setting up of the MPA. Problems around drug and substance abuse are very pertinent in this borough. Can there be an assurance that all steps are being taken to prevent the illegal importation of drugs.

(f) There was a recent incident on my estate where the police responded to a call concerning intruders who had been spotted on the roof of a resident's home. The officers had been called away to deal with another incident before they had investigated the incident. When this was taken up with the police station the next day the caller was advised that the officers had been called to a more pressing incident but they had been disinclined to climb onto the roof to investigate anyway.

The Borough Commander said as was the case in many boroughs the number of officers at her disposal at any one time was considerably under the allocation – on occasions by up to 30 officers. The problem was at its worst in the evening when there were many conflicting demands on police time and resources. This could on occasion mean that officers had to leave one incident move on to a more serious one. She said she would like to talk to the questioner after the meeting about the particular incident which had been raised.

(g) I think that a major cause of crime on the streets is due to the fact that there is very little for young people to do. Statutory provision was decimated with local government changes in the 1980s and nothing has replaced what was lost at that time. Provision in the voluntary sector is not an effective substitute.

(h) There is concern that there are simply no police on the streets to deal with criminal activity and this has been exacerbated by the closure of the police station. This means that gangs of youths can congregate and create a nuisance.

Angela Slaven explained that the MPA was working with the MPS on a pan-London approach to strategies to divert young people from crime. She outlined some of the other initiatives which were taking place.

Abdal Ullah said that this was a key issue locally and agreed that there needed to be an improvement to youth provision in the borough.

(i) What are the police going to do about vandalism especially on and near the estates. The trouble makers are never evicted from their homes.

The Borough Commander said that the Police welcomed the multi agency approach through the crime and disorder partnerships etc. to problems such as vandalism. She was pleased to be able to report that following a lengthy process involving a considerable amount of work by several agencies the first anti social behaviour order in the borough had recently been obtained in the courts. She was also aware of other initiatives such as "acceptable behaviour contracts" which were used in other boroughs.

Commander Roberts commented that the type of orders the Borough Commander had referred to meant that tenants were made aware that their tenancy was in danger if their behaviour did not improve.

(j)
(i) Attacks on small businesses should be treated more speedily by the police. In a recent incident they took three hours to arrive.
(ii) Domestic violence is an issue for women in the Asian community and I am aware of a case where the police said they could not respond to a perceived threat but only to an actual incident.
(iii) There are women who wanted to come to this meeting but were prevented from doing so because they needed to be at home to look after their children. Can you provide child care for the CDO meetings.

It was agreed that the question of child care provision at meetings be examined.

(k) There is a lot of criminal activity on the estates but the police appear to be reluctant to intervene. Can we be assured that the MPA is trying to provide more police.

The Clerk confirmed that the Authority was pressing for extra resources to be spent on policing.

(l) Speaking as the Chair of the local Lay Visitors Panel, there is concern at the short time which was allowed to comment on the Home Office proposals for changing the arrangements for lay visiting. Our unease is at the centralisation of control as this would mean that lay visitors are seen as being part of the police.

Cecile Lothian explained that she was the lead member on lay visiting and said that there would be further consultation on the proposals with local panels. She would stress that the emphasis would be on keeping the panels independent as evidenced by the proposed change of title to "independent custody visitor scheme."

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