Minutes

24 October 2000

Minutes of the meeting of the Consultation, Diversity and Outreach Committee held at Epicentre, 41 West Street, London E11 4LJ.

Present

Members

• R David Muir (Chair)
• Cindy Butts (Deputy Chair)
• Angela Slaven (Deputy Chair)
• Nicholas Long
• Abdul Ullah

MPA staff

• Peter Edwards (Clerk)
• Colin Balkman (Deputy Treasurer)
• Liza McKinney
• Alan Johnson
• Julia Smith

MPS staff

• A Wheeler
• Chief Supt L Owen
• Supt J Godsave
• Supt George Clerk (Deputy Borough Commander, Waltham Forest)

Plus 30 members of the press and public.

Part 1

28. Apologies for absence

(Agenda item 1)

Apologies were received from Jennette Arnold, Jenny Jones and Cecile Lothian (Committee members). Apologies were also received from AC Dunn, DAC Ghaffur and Harry Cohen MP.

29. Comments from the chair

The Chair of the Committee welcomed everybody to the meeting, the second Consultation, Diversity and Outreach Committee meeting to be held externally. The Chair informed the meeting that the object of these externally held meetings was to engage the public. To enable as many members of the public as possible to be present for the item on questions the order of business would be varied so that these would be taken after item 5. The Chair concluded by inviting the Committee and MPA/MPS staff to introduce themselves.

30. Minutes

(Agenda item 2)

Resolved:
that the minutes of the Consultation, Diversity and Outreach Committee meeting held on 26 September 2000 be signed and agreed as a true record.

Arising:

19. Best value

Noted that the Finance, Planning and Best Value Committee had agreed to the request that the Consultation, Diversity and Outreach Committee could sign off the project report.

21. Vienna Convention and response to disorder

Nicholas Long reported that no progress had been made at the MPS review meeting.

26. Lay visiting to police stations

Noted that the Home Office had offered a secondment and that the details would be discussed further.

31. Questions from the public

(Agenda item 3)

The comments, questions and replies are contained in Appendix 1 of the minutes.

32. Chair’s update

(Agenda item 4)

The Committee received a further oral report on the following items:

Gurpal Virdi Status report
The Chair reported that a senior policy adviser had been appointed.

Notting Hill Carnival
Nicholas Long, the MPA representative on the Mayor’s review, reported that an initial meeting had been held and that the first substantive meeting would be held on 26 October.

Meetings with Community and representative groups
Individual members reported on the groups they had met in their capacity as link members. Nicholas Long also reported that he had recently attended a conference of the Association of Police Authorities of which the MPA was a member.

Resolved:
that the report be received and noted.

33. Process for dealing with community questions

(Agenda item 5)

The Committee considered a report which suggested a process for dealing with the public at CDO Committee meetings.

The Chair said that the MPA was anxious that members of the public should receive a response on the points they raised in the questionnaire. Information could also be obtained from the web site. The Clerk said he wished to reassure members of the public that personal details included on the questionnaire would not be made public.

A member suggested that a pro-forma be sent with the material sent to local groups concerning each meeting so that questions could be submitted in advance. It was also suggested that a reply envelope be provided with the questionnaires.

Resolved:
that the process for responding to questions and issues raised by the community be adopted.

34. Update on workshops for CDO committee

(Agenda item 6)

The Clerk presented an oral report on two workshops which had been held recently.

Diversity 27 September
This had been well attended.

He highlighted the following areas for further work:

Equal Opportunities Policy
MPS Diversity Strategy
Need of MPS to employ an Equalities Adviser

Arising from a discussion on how to carry the work forward it was agreed to consider holding a follow up workshop for the Consultation, Diversity and Outreach Committee and other members.

Crime and Disorder 16 October

There had been speakers from a wide variety of organisations. Material considered on the day will be assembled and distributed to members.

Resolved:
that the oral report on the workshops be noted.

35. Best value review on consultation – progress report

(Agenda item 7)

The Committee received a report on the progress that had been made with the Best Value Review. The review has completed the analytical stage and the first draft best value report completed.

The MPS Project Manager stated that the review was being conducted on the basis of sharing good practice. A briefing paper would be circulated to the Chairs of PCCGs prior to the November meeting of the Committee.

Resolved:
that the continuing work being carried out by the joint MPA/MPS project team on the Best Value Review be noted.

36. Consultation on priorities for the 2001/02 policing plan

(Agenda item 8)

The Committee considered a report which summarised the consultation carried out to date out and suggested means of further consultation. It was noted that given the timetable and the significant resource implication for members there was only limited scope for the process outlined in recommendation 2.

Resolved:
that further "E-Consultation" be conducted using the Internet to obtain public views on emerging priorities.

37. Guide to stop and search (draft)

(Agenda item 9)

The Committee considered a draft document which had been produced by the MPS and which set out practical operating guidelines for stop and search. The document sets minimum standards for senior management teams, first line supervisors and officers conducting stop and search. The aim of the document is to guide officers to adopt a human right based approach to their actions.

Chief Supt Owen stated that consideration was also being given to the guidelines on "stop and speak" and in particular the need for members of the public to be required to give their personal details.

The Chair referred to concerns which he understood had been raised at the local PCCG concerning the disproportionate use of stop and search on young black men.

In reply to a point from a member on the perception that long serving officers were sometimes reluctant to undergo refresher training Chief Supt Owen pointed out the substantial amount of re-training which had been introduced following the introduction of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.

Nicholas Long referred to the final page of the guide. He considered that information concerning a stop and search should be entered onto the database sooner than the five days mentioned. It was important, for example, that if a person who had been stopped and searched went to the local police station to discuss the matter that the officers had a record of the incident.

Supt Godsave clarified the position by drawing a distinction between the legal recording of an incident, which was done the same day and recording the incident on the "stops" database which was essentially an intelligence tool The five days referred to in the guide related to the time by which all the supporting information and documentation had to be entered. The use of new IT packages was being investigated.

The Chair stated that members of the Committee had already been considering this matter and would be responding to the MPS on the consultation document in the light of the points which had been raised.

Resolved:
that written comments be submitted by members to the draft guidance document.

38. Equal opportunities statement for the MPA

 (Agenda item 10)

The Human Resources Committee at its meeting on 19 October considered a draft Equal Opportunities Statement for the MPA. It had been agreed that the statement together with the initial views of the HRC be considered by the Consultation, Diversity and Outreach Committee.

The Committee agreed to consider a report on this matter as a late item.

The Committee concurred with the suggestion that a working group be established. To assist the process reference would be made to existing policies and templates used in other organisations. It was noted that consideration would need to be given to the extent to which the Code would apply to MPS staff .

Resolved:

1. a working group be set up to prepare an equal opportunities policy for the MPA taking account of the HR Committee’s views and subject to any adjustments agreed with members of the HR Committee;
2. when the draft policy has been agreed by the CDO Committee it be submitted to the full Authority for endorsement.

The Chair said that notification would be given later in the week of the members who had been nominated to the working group.

The meeting ended at 8.00pm.

Appendix 1: Questions from the public

(Agenda item 3)

The Chair, in accordance with procedural Standing Order 33, invited questions from members of the public. It was noted that an allocation of thirty minutes would be made for questions. The following questions were put to the Committee:

(a) Would it not be equitable for refreshments to be made available to members of the public attending CDO meetings as they are for MPA members?

The Chair agreed that this was a good point and said that arrangements would be made for tea and coffee to be provided for the public at future meetings.

(b) The future of PCCGs looks uncertain. Can the MPA give a firm commitment to retain this popular form of consultation in the boroughs?

(c) As the Chair of the Waltham Forest PCCG I would be interested to know what the MPA considers constitutes an effective PCCG.

Members commented that the MPA wished PCCGs to remain and for their performance to improve in the light of the Best Value review. Tests of effectiveness would include levels of participation and the extent to which various groups were represented. Young people were cited as an example of a group which was not represented on many PCCG’s.

(d) Is the Committee aware of the concern felt by parents and young people at the high level of street crime in this part of east London which is covered by TELCO? Young people are being targeted by other young people and the motive is often the violent theft of mobile telephones. Baroness Richardson had offered to chair an inquiry in Waltham Forest in the light of particular concerns raised by Norlington School which has taken the lead in trying to address the problem.

(e) I am a parent of three children and I am aware that these muggings and robberies are a widespread problem. My son was so upset after being mugged that he has had to change schools.

(f) As a parent of a child at another school in Waltham Forest I applaud the initiative from Norlington and think that other schools should follow the example.

Supt Clark said that the incidence of this type of crime had increased locally and indeed across the whole of the Metropolitan Police The increase locally had been in the order of 20 per cent last year following a 30 per cent increase in the previous year. A recent trend was for fewer of these attacks to take place in the immediate vicinity of schools. The police welcomed the initiatives which had been taken at schools such as Norlington and the recognition that a multi agency approach was required.

The meeting was also advised that discussions had taken place between the police and telephone manufacturers about modifications to the technology so that stolen phones would not operate if they were "sold on", but so far it had not been possible for this adjustment to be made.

(g) In view of the value of youth clubs in engaging young people and diverting them from crime has the MPA thought about encouraging the establishment of more of them?

The Chair said that It would be difficult for the MPA as a body to influence the establishment of more youth clubs. However, the issue of engaging young people was an important one. Members could keep themselves informed on these issues and could link into local Youth Offending Teams.

(h) How do the police decide how many officers are allocated to each borough?

It was noted that there was a procedure called the Resource Allocation Formula (RAF) which had been used for many years to inform the allocation of police officers to boroughs. Many factors were taken into consideration when allocating the number of officers. These included, for example, the presence in a borough of a major football ground or a major road. It was the perception of the police in several boroughs especially in outer London that their needs were not fully taken into account in the formula. The MPA’s Finance, Planning and Best Value Committee had recently initiated a joint MPA/MPS review of the formula. The Chair commented that it was not practicable to give an oral response on this very detailed subject and said that the questioner would receive full details in writing.

(i) As an Asian woman I am aware of the racial violence targeted against women in my community and I would like to see Asian women represented on the MPA. How do you select which community representatives you consult?

The Chair stated that there were two Muslims on the Authority although neither of them were women. Members tried to ensure that any community group which wished to see a MPA member did so. There was no formal protocol about how this should be done and any request for a meeting made to the MPA would be passed to the appropriate link borough member. Angela Slaven reported that she was aware of the problem of domestic violence and was on the Mayor’s Commission.

(j) Would it not be useful if the MPA link Member could attend CDO meetings?

It was noted that the link member for Waltham Forest was Jennette Arnold who was also a member of the CDO Committee. Unfortunately another commitment meant that she had not been able to be present at the meeting.

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